For years casinos have been trying to thwart card counters who gain an advantage at blackjack by using expert play. While card counting isn't illegal, casinos don’t take kindly to it. In Las Vegas, casinos are allowed to bar players they suspect of counting.

Francisco
  1. The house holds the edge over any recreational blackjack and wants faster games to capitalize on this advantage. A CSM allows casinos to deal around 20% more hands per hour. The exact amount that casino stand to make from faster blackjack tables varies based on different factors.
  2. Counting CSM Blackjack (+EV) is the article about the method, posted almost six years ago. Some replies to the article claim success using the method.
I met several players in Manila’ casinos who are trying to beat CSM blackjack by using Stephen How method of card counting. ( discount gaming .net). I asked them how they are dong so far. They said they are doing ok.
They sit in the table watching( counting) ,Wong in and Wong out , casino doesn’t care. They beat minimumon one hand, then when the count is good they beat every hand with maximum.
The rule here are pretty good for player: CSM 6 deck, early surrender, no peak, double any 2 cards,split any pair up to 3 times. Split ace once .lose original bet only when banker has BJ.Banker stand on soft 17. Double after split ( except Ace)
So , any comment?
BleedingChipsSlowly
Counting CSM Blackjack (+EV) is the article about the method, posted almost six years ago. Some replies to the article claim success using the method.CountingCounting Csm Blackjack
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
Romes
Thanks for this post from:
One thing to note either way... one hand of min to max hands at max is going to lead to some hideous variance. Thus, you could be playing this for tens of thousands of hands and be up when really you're -EV, or you could be way down when you're +EV. Going to take hundreds of thousands of hands to prove out the advantage...
I think it's beatable, only if you have a seriously ridiculously large bankroll. Think of it as being a regular shoe game and casinos cutting off 3/4 decks. Thus you only get 1 deck worth of information at a time before each shuffle. Your frequencies will be way less and thus when you do get the good counts you need to STUFF the betting driving your variance through the roof (as well as your bankroll requirements).
deviru
I have the machine and have spent huge amount of time but still haven't figure out a solid strategy to beat it. I will share what i have found so far.
1. there are 38 slots and each contains 6 to 12 cards before it extracts the card. but on the latest version (one2six OTS), the max no. of card is 10 instead of 12.
2. when a certain number of cards are pulled (usually 10 cards, but sometimes less), one of the slot passes the cards into chute. in this case, the wheel doesn't move, and will use the closest slot to the chute.
3. there are always about 16 to 20 cards in the exit waiting to be played.
4. there are about 30 - 40 cards that cannot come out because they are less than 6 cards in a slot. it seems like those slots are usually crowded all together but they can be anywhere.
5. if you dont put the card back in the machine and keep taking out the cards, the slot wont move around and extracts the closest slot, so that the empty slots are all together.
6. if you keep taking out the card and when it needs to extract while its shuffling, the wheel stops at random point and extract the card and then start shuffling again.
7. i pull out 10 cards and put them back in one by one while the cover is opened and write down which slot the machine picks to fill the chute and which slot the cards go back in. the result was quite interesting.
it picks 2 areas for in and out. for example, machine picks slot #9 to fill the chute and then slot #23. when it picks those 2 areas, it will keep using the close areas to fill the chute. next was like #6, #20, #7, #21, #5, #19 and so on. the number only went downward and rarely use the same slot again. (maybe once the slot is used, it is emptied and takes awhile to get enough cards to extract.) same pattern applies to the slots that the cards go in.
this means some slots stay out of play for a prolonged time and the cards that will appear in the next round is very limited.
loldongs
Thanks for this post from:
Counting csm blackjack training

I have the machine and have spent huge amount of time but still haven't figure out a solid strategy to beat it. I will share what i have found so far.


are you in vegas? i will be in town for WSOP, and can bring the gear needed to non-destructively dump the ROM on this thing any which way we need to. wanna find out how these work for once and for all? :)
(seriously, PM me. i want to check out the code on these things as a matter of curiousity, regardless.)

Counting Csm Blackjack Games

deviru

are you in vegas? i will be in town for WSOP, and can bring the gear needed to non-destructively dump the ROM on this thing any which way we need to. wanna find out how these work for once and for all? :)
(seriously, PM me. i want to check out the code on these things as a matter of curiousity, regardless.)


i would like to, but im not in vegas. you can pm and ask me anything.
7up

are you in vegas? i will be in town for WSOP, and can bring the gear needed to non-destructively dump the ROM on this thing any which way we need to. wanna find out how these work for once and for all? :)
(seriously, PM me. i want to check out the code on these things as a matter of curiousity, regardless.)


email me ... bj7up@yahoo.com
acw
deviru,
Did you ever manage to update the software?
deviru

deviru,
Did you ever manage to update the software?


i updated it to 2.03.i but im not sure if this is the latest version.
acw
I did see some casinos use that version. On which website did you find the update?
bjshufflemachin
My rules give me off the top advantage of ~0,15%
dealer wait to deal the second round and put back the discard just before asking for additionnal cards to the players...
My idea was to play 7 boxes to get about 2 rounds latency : 7x 1/5 of my max wager at 0 and put 7 x max wager at TC1 (7xmin table if negative)
To do it correct I'm questionning about few things :
example : first round I put 7x30$ and my hilo RC go to +8 , so for the 2nd round TC= +1 and I put 7x150$.
When the dealer deal on the 2nd round the 15 cards he then put back the discard in the machin, at this moment when do I have to reset my RC ? I have to keep a new RC of the 15 cards of the second round+ additionnal card taken from the players and use this count to bet for the third round ? etc .... etc ...
I also heard one2six have a buffer of 16 cards in the chute, so how to use this addionnal information ?
AcesAndEights

My rules give me off the top advantage of ~0,15%
dealer wait to deal the second round and put back the discard just before asking for additionnal cards to the players...
My idea was to play 7 boxes to get about 2 rounds latency : 7x 1/5 of my max wager at 0 and put 7 x max wager at TC1 (7xmin table if negative)
To do it correct I'm questionning about few things :
example : first round I put 7x30$ and my hilo RC go to +8 , so for the 2nd round TC= +1 and I put 7x150$.
When the dealer deal on the 2nd round the 15 cards he then put back the discard in the machin, at this moment when do I have to reset my RC ? I have to keep a new RC of the 15 cards of the second round+ additionnal card taken from the players and use this count to bet for the third round ? etc .... etc ...
I also heard one2six have a buffer of 16 cards in the chute, so how to use this addionnal information ?


If the game has an advantage off the top, just flat bet table max (or whatever your bankroll can handle). No point in counting, especially if it's a CSM. One round won't get you much, although with 7 hands it might get you a little.
Are you SURE about that advantage off the top? Full early surrender? Would you mind sharing the rules so we can fact-check? (Not asking you to share the casino, feel free to keep that to yourself.)

Counting Csm Blackjack Game

'So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust.' -ontariodealer
bjshufflemachin
Yes full ES.
No just flatbetting would ask a huge bankroll cause of too big variance.
by adding the 2 rounds infos it beggin playable in the long long long.... run.
I will not flatbet the game, I want to get the more advantage I can by adding counting.

Counting Csm Blackjack Training

21forme
One time I played a CSM (for a 10x points promo that gave cashback making it +EV). The only thing counting was good for was relieving the boredom and telling me whether to hit or stand on 16v10.
acw
I assume we are referring to the French casinos here. Yes, on a full table I just bet maximum non-stop. These rules are indeed way too favourable, but then if you see how the crowd plays overthere, they could make them even nicer by offering 3 to 2 payouts on split 10s that hit an Ace. In some of the casinos sitting alone at the table and playing fewer boxes, they will only put the cards back into the machine after a deck has gone out.
What is the current point of view of 'la police des jeux' in regards to counters?
beyond14
dont dream unless u got 200000US more for lost and too much time for fun
I get the same good rule as u , as the casino offer me 0.8% dead chip
also some casino saved 1 deck before shuffle for csm
I lost near 120000 US for the small advantage
AxiomOfChoice
What is the table max?
acw

What is the table max?


In most French casinos 500 Euros. In Cannes one of them had a 2500 Euros max.
RS

Counting Csm Blackjack Sheet

You're betting 7x$30 in ~+0.15% EV and betting 7x$150 in ~+0.65% EV?
Your EV is ~$0.31 (31 cents) per round when you're betting 7x30. EV is ~$6.85 per round when the TC is +1 (betting 7x150).
You're looking at some serious variance here and a tiny hourly wage.